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Happy 500 anniversary!

re: Happy 500 anniversary!

Texts are clear in context, Lizbeth. Taken out of context, one can "make" the Bible say almost anything one wishes. Mormons do this, to "prove" that we will be gods. Jehovah's Witnesses do this, to "prove" Jesus is not God. And so on and so forth. Passages require their entire context.

re: Happy 500 anniversary!

And yes you can live your life hearing the word of God and still end up in heaven with out having been baptized or taken the Lord's supper....

God's grace saves us.

The Bible says Baptism saves.


I'm seeing two opposing statements there, (1) that one can end up in heaven *without* being baptized, yes; and (2) that baptism saves, (thus one would need it to end up in heaven).

So I'm not sure which is intended.

re: Happy 500 anniversary!

The Bible says Baptism now saves you.

Why wont you believe the clear and simple text?

Was our God tricking us?

Was our God trying to confuse us?

re: Happy 500 anniversary!

It is God's grace that save us.

He applies His grace in Baptism and the Lords Supper and through the preaching of his word.

You seem to not believe the clear and simple text, God said in his Bible that Baptism saves us.

What do you do with God's written word?

He wrote it...

Not me!

: )

re: Happy 500 anniversary!

Go read all of mamanas verses in Context, the text is clear!

: )

re: Happy 500 anniversary!

It looks like the Peter passage is being referenced.

Peter refers to "the like figure whereunto baptism now saves you."

The like figure is the flood and the ark.

In point of fact, the water didn't save; it was an antitype, which is why he says the like figure.

The water would have killed them all, and did kill everyone else -- everyone who didn't have FAITH to hop on board the ark.

It's FAITH that saves.

You had to have faith to believe the water was coming and get aboard.

You had to have faith to believe that making sacrifices would keep you right with God, during Old Test. times.

You have to have faith to be saved, faith in Jesus' death and resurrection and imputed righteousness through His blood, and only that faith saves. Your baptism is a SIGN of your faith. Just like being on the ark was a SIGN of their faith in God. The water then wouldn't have saved; it drowned everyone else. Water now can't save; it can at most keep us clean or from thirst. It is a picture and sign and also -- humble obedience to God.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.(Hebrews)

re: Happy 500 anniversary!

Yes, the text is clear, and my faith rests on Christ ALONE, not mere water or bread/wine, which are earthly pictures; and when I stand before Christ, I will have NONE of my own righteousness, and won't be able to say, "I got baptized; I took Communion."

I will have no works of my own, which is why, as it states in Revelation, any crown I might receive I would throw at His feet, knowing anything I managed to do was the Holy Spirit doing through me.

Baptism as a requirement for salvation, and Communion as a requirement for salvation, brings people into bondage to an organized religion that can officially confer baptism and Communion. But Christ came to set us free from such man-made bondage.

If a poor soul in North Korea or China or Burma manages to secretly hear a Christian radio broadcast, and is saved, and is never able to be baptized or take the Lord's table, that soul will be in heaven with the Lord, because FAITH SAVES, not water, not wine and bread. These are earthly pictures and have no power. The power is all of God.

re: Happy 500 anniversary!

Wow, M4J, you certainly posted a *definitive* list of RC links on page 4, which show clearly that the Official Authoritative Belief of RC Tradition is that they are the Only True Church, and Officially call non-RC churches "denominations" and "not real churches".

If anyone doubts that, all they have to do is read the actual official RC statements you posted on page 4.

Lizbeth, you said "Luther was a reformer, not a protestant".

Was there a difference? It seems to me we're dealing with semantics here. To the RC's, Luther was definitely a Protest-ant because he Protested the unBiblical beliefs of the RC's.

I agree with you that he tried to reform the RC from the inside out, Protesting to that end. But they would not have it so.

You said that I "typed much and much of it is not really conducive to conversation on line."

I tried to be as concise as possible in an attempt to reply to Minnie's questions which could take a book to answer. :)

You posted this wonderful scripture (which is very special to me):

Acts 2:38-39 New International Version (NIV)

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

Yes, that promise is for Everyone who Repents ...

Infants cannot repent because they are not aware of sin. That was the point of what I said earlier. The Bible only teaches believers' baptism. The only recorded baptisms were those of believers, people who were old enough to repent of sin.


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