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And sister

re: And sister

serious control issues to the point that she is meddling with my adult children and trying to be "their best friend". While I appreciate the presence of a loving aunt and her generosity (she spends $$$$$$ on lavish gifts), that should NEVER be so much of a relationship that it trumps or usurps the parent/in law relationship.


I agree that the parent/in law relationship should not be damaged, but I also wonder if that is happening, in fact? Your children are adults and I think it's likely they know what your sister is like and are just being polite. (Though with some people, just being polite doesn't work; rather, as Candycane discussed, they need to encounter a plain gray rock.)

At any rate, there's a time to let things be; but there's a time to speak aloud that "the emperor has no clothes." Is this the time to have a heart-to-heart with your children? That might be just the thing to ease your distress. And whatever they do at that point is their fully-knowledgeable choice as adults, but at least you'd know that they had "full disclosure" and were acting in accordance with it.

I'm so sorry ((((martinbeef)))) and will pray for resolution and peace for you.

re: And sister

CandyCane, you got any openings on that couch of yours?

re: And sister

Ahem...sorry. May have gotten a little carried away. This is hurtful stuff and I can empathize with what MB is posting SO much. Maybe I need to rein myself in a bit, lol.

re: And sister

Wow, I could have written most of Candycane's post. Cc, it sounds like your mom is doing the triangulation thing with you and your son. :( I'm so sorry and will pray.

MB, another scripture the Lord has used to change my life is this one: We wrestle not with flesh and blood, but with principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness of this world, and spiritual wickedness in high places. Therefore, take unto yourselves the whole armor of God... (Eph. 6)

I wholeheartedly recommend meditating on that scripture passage every day (I only posted part of it) and putting on the armor each day. This has made a huge difference in my life, putting the focus on the real enemy, which reminds me to forgive people and commit them and the whole situation to the Lord while following His direction. IMHO this is the meaning of being 'as wise as a serpent and as harmless as a dove'.

re: And sister

Sorry to hear that, gr8tful. I don't remember your mentioning your mom before. I know it's tough, isn't it? I feel bad for posting about this stuff, but no one else IRL understands, even my brothers. I'm the only one who sees this. Getting a little bit of it out here does help.

Just thinking this morning about all the lies she has told me going back as far as I can remember, and it's depressing. Most days are perfectly fine. Once in awhile, I have days where I just feel like something is gripping me from the inside and won't let go. No matter how "nice" my mom is most of the time, I just can't deeply bond with or trust someone who is so manipulative and deceitful. So I have put up a wall, and it will have to stay there forever.

And the lies make no sense. They are so unnecessary. I jut don't get it.

In reading about all this, I have learned that narcissistic personality disorder continues in a cycle from one generation to the next. And that the narcissistic parent will choose one golden child and one or more scapegoat children. A lot of times, the golden child is a at risk for becoming a narcissist. A lot of times, the scapegoat children are often empaths, and some of them, later in life, become codependent. (This is not always the case, though). NPD parents are abusive emotionally and sometimes physically. Not all run of the mill ordinary narcissists are abusive, and not all people who are abusive are narcissists. But people who are NPD show certain traits and can be diagnosed. They often are not because they don't often seek help since they don't believe anything is wrong with them. One main point I want to make is that the scapegoat children usually are the ones who are able to see things clearly when others (even the golden child) can't. They are often the ones who have the best chance of escape and to heal from the dysfunctional family later in life. The golden child is really the most unfortunate one as they are blind to everything and often become a narcissist themselves. Most of us have some narcissistic traits, and that's normal. But it's no longer benign when that person has a false mask and keeps their inner self hidden, lies, manipulates, etc. You can see a pattern, and if you look closely at all the relationships the NPD has, you will see that all of them are rough and rocky.

My mom is this way. There isn't a person in her life that she hasn't been in the ring with at some point or another. And I don't mean just ordinary disagreements. It's not just me, it's everybody. Wait long enough, and it will happen. Then she puts you into the category of "bad." It boggles my mind how someone who lies and manipulates can think of themselves as being so "good" and self righteous. When she lies, she thinks it's perfectly justified and she doesn't comprehend that she is causing pain. And you can't tell her because she becomes angry (even though she hurt YOU).

Okay. There I go again. That's enough.

re: And sister

But about my son, he is living on his own in another state. He doesn't speak that often with my mom. I don't have to worry about that too much now. I look back and realize now that the whole situation was a lot more serious than I realized. I only know this now because of finally discovering and understanding just what the heck was/is going on with my mother. They often do "hijack" their grandchildren.

That's why when I read MB post about her own children and her sister, that really caught my attention. What bothers me is that, if you think about it, there is, on the surface, no real "harm" being done. If she tries to explain what she is seeing, they will just say she is reading too much in and overreacting. But she is sitting there hurting because of this dynamic that no one else can see and hurting because she is now left wondering whether her son in law said that he doesn't like her. And hurting because she feels as if her sister is over stepping boundaries in her role as aunt. This is exactly the COVERT cr@p that these people are capable of. MB is hurting, and no one else sees it. My guess is MB is hurting because some deeper stuff is going on here, and I just hope she can discern whether this is true, or just annoying and benign. There is something about the way she describes what her sister is doing that I can relate to ....the same way that my mom did this to me with my own son. If she can do some reading and see if it fits, she can then handle it in the correct way. That's what I'm hoping for.

re: And sister

There are a lot of labels nowadays, but the Bible has one label: sin. There is a remedy -- for the sinner; for the one wounded by the sinner. That is true hope!

re: And sister

M4J, of course that's true. Sin is at the root of every wrong thought, attitude, word, and deed.

The thing about this issue is that the average person grows up with the idea that moms LOVE, that moms GIVE, that moms will sacrifice themselves for their dc due to natural love. Apple pie and motherhood, that sort of thing.

So when one's mother is completely opposite (especially while pretending not to be), that's a LOT for a child to absorb. Most dc Can't and Don't really see it until they're grown because of the myths that abound in our culture. The average dc thinks to him or herself that surely something is wrong with THEM -- it couldn't be good old Mom, could it? Especially when Mom is So Good to everyone else, including siblings.

I Timothy 3 says that one of the signs of the end times is lack of natural love. I'm often reminded of that.

Candycane, it's amazing to me that here at this board, in such a small cross-section of people, there are so many (percentage-wise) women who have experienced this. A Dutch woman called 'harp' who lives in the Caribbean gave her experience with this. And others, too.

Since this is true, I cannot even imagine how many there are across the nation who have experienced this. It's really, really sad.


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